Dale L. Roberts talks about why you should both be doing a YouTube channel and self-publishing your book(s) to grow your business.
GUEST: Dale L. Roberts of Self-Publishing With Dale. Check out Self-Publishing with Dale on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube and Facebook, and Dale L. Roberts on LinkedIn and Twitter and Amazon.
HOST: The Video Marketing Value Podcast is hosted by Dane Golden of VidiUp.tv and VidTarget.io | LinkedIn | Twitter | YouTube
SPONSORS: This episode is brought to you by our affiliate partners, including: TubeBuddy, VidIQ, MorningFame, Rev.com, and other products and services we recommend.
PRODUCER: Jason Perrier of Phizzy Studios
TRANSCRIPT:
Dane Golden:
It’s time for the Video Marketing Value podcast from HEY.com. This is the podcast where we help marketers and business owners just like you, get more value from your video marketing efforts. My name is Dane Golden and we have a special guest today, not Dane, but Dale L. Roberts of Self-Publishing With Dale. Welcome Dale.
Dale L. Roberts:
Hey Dane! Yes, you know, we’ve got a very similar name, so I guess that makes us kinship, we’re brothers.
Dane Golden:
Well if people were looking at our photos, let’s see, we’ve got a similar name, we’re both bald, we both wear glasses. I think you’re in a heck of a lot better shape than I am. So I think that would be the distinguishing factor here. So I asked you on today because you help people self-publish books and understand that whole business, including business books, correct?
Dale L. Roberts:
Correct. Yeah, absolutely. In fact, a fair amount of what I share with self-publishing, I lean heavily in favor nonfiction because that’s my wheelhouse.
Dane Golden:
Great. And we … you also run a successful YouTube channel about this, to help them understand how to do it. So my big question for you today is, you ready?
Dale L. Roberts:
Yeah.
Dane Golden:
Okay. When should a business write a book to promote their business or their CEO or some major important person at the company and when should they do a YouTube channel instead? Not a question that’s usually asked. Are you prepared for this question?
Dale L. Roberts:
I’m not sure I’m prepared for it, but I’m going to answer on the fly here because that’s just, that’s my wheelhouse as well as improv and being able to kind of cover this. When should you write a book for your business? This is going to seem tricky, yesterday.
Dane Golden:
Okay. All right.
Dale L. Roberts:
You have a business, you should have a book of some sort. Let me redefine our expectations of what a book is. A book doesn’t need to be a novel, novels typically 50-80,000 words. You don’t need to have it that long. Just something that’s going to represent your business, your brand, who you are and what value you bring to the world. And that book is going to aid in your credibility and authority for whatever your given niche is. Whatever your given business is. It’s kind of like a business card on steroids. And so, start it yesterday. Now when it comes to YouTube, Oh man, this-
Dane Golden:
All right.
Dale L. Roberts:
What came first, the chicken or the egg? Because one can service the other really well. And I found out, I started with books first, YouTube just kind of happened by accident for me. But-
Dane Golden:
Oh really?
Dale L. Roberts:
Oh yeah. I came into this business, it was just kind of as a means to an end, trying to answer people’s questions instead of doing it 50 times by email, I just did it by one video and so that was really how I did that. So for YouTube, if you’re a business, again kind of like a book, you should start it yesterday, because right now, YouTube a lot of people might think that it’s a saturated market and it’s not. There’s so much more that you can offer to the world and every one has a unique voice about them. Dane, for instance, has a different delivery than Dale does. Even though we share so much in common, there is a different type of way that he expresses himself. And you as a business owner, you as an entrepreneur owe it to the world to share your unique voice. And that vehicle is through YouTube. And here’s the nice thing, is one hand can wash the other, because you can promote your YouTube channel through your books.
Dane Golden:
So you’re saying … so you’re saying both should be done yesterday and they both work off one of one another, is that right?
Dale L. Roberts:
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. One, it’s just like a gigantic fire when it’s all said and done.
Dane Golden:
So does it matter? But I’m going to narrow down here, really hold you to this. They were both yesterday, but let’s say I’m working on a book, it’s going to come out, I know I know I’m going to finish in six months. Should I start the … It’s going to take me a while, but I could start a YouTube channel today. Should I start the YouTube channel today or should I wait until the book launches to promote the book?But for example, our study showed that 30 second ads [on YouTube] perform way better than 15 second ads, in terms of view-to-completion rates. Whereas on Facebook and Instagram, the opposite is the case. You want to keep your ads very short on those social platforms.
Dale L. Roberts:
By that time, it’s too late. You need to start building that audience and build the hype behind that release. In fact, if you’re doing something that’s six months out, that’s probably just enough time for you to start to build relationships with your audience and attract them over to YouTube and generate buzz. There is something you’re going to want to do when you’re going into your launch phase. Okay, you’re going to be launching this book, so we really want to make sure it launches in the best way possible. That video creation vehicle that is YouTube, is probably one of the best ways, but you can’t just go into YouTube going, “I’m making a book.” No one cares. Everyone’s making a book, what you need to probably do is lead service-based first. Go into it.
Let’s say that your book is on dog grooming. You’re a dog groomer of some sort. Maybe your channel will be about dog grooming and you can even say, do bullet points from the book, kind of cover those things and you’re going to kind of figure out what resonates with your audience. So half a year prior to your launch, maybe you kind of discover, they don’t really care about trimming the claws on a dog. But they care more about maybe, I don’t know, trimming the tail. These are random things. Sorry, dog groomers out there I’m butchering this up for you. But you get the idea, because the YouTube is going to be a way … YouTubes is going to be a way that-
Dane Golden:
Go to the tubes.
Dale L. Roberts:
You could figure out. Yeah, you could figure out what’s going to resonate with your audience and you can kind of start to refine the content that is inside the pages there, so that way when it does launch, they’ll love it.
Dane Golden:
So what I hear you saying is that not only should you launch a YouTube channel before, but actually it’s part of the process of writing the book and engaging and building that audience on not just a a one-to-many, but on a one-to-one basis, where there’s an interaction of finding out what they need and what they want.
Dale L. Roberts:
It’s like the cheat sheet. It’s like getting that cheat code for a video game, you’re able to figure out what they want. And here’s the beauty of it is when you figure out what they want, it’s going to be so much easier when you launch this and they’re raving fans of your content already and they’re like, well of course I’ve got to go buy this book. This guy has given me such insane value, I want to get this thing.
Dane Golden:
Let me ask you this question too, okay. So someone’s saying, “Hey listen, I’m going to write this book and people are going to love these insights so much, they’re all going to love this book.” What if they’re afraid of giving out some of these insights in the video?
Dale L. Roberts:
So they’re afraid of giving too much value. But you know, it’s been my experience and here’s the thing is, as long as I’ve been doing this for about a few years on YouTube for the whole self-publishing industry as a whole, I’ve never given away too much. People still buy, you know, buy their way into the courses. They get the coaching program, they get the affiliate things off there. So there’s never such thing as too much and they’re still going to continue to consume it. And here’s the nice thing is there’s billions of people in the world. You’re still always going to reach different people and if you’ve got enough content out there, I am hard pressed to see anybody has watched every single one of my videos. Even my mother hasn’t watched all my videos.
Dane Golden:
What?
Dale L. Roberts:
I’ve got 300 plus videos. I know, you got to get a hold of her. But yeah, that’s the thing is, there’s never such thing as too much value, giving too much away. And here’s the thing is, when you communicate via video, it’s much different than when you’re communicating via a book. And so, one way is going to be a different delivery than the other. So it’s … and I’ve got to kind of back step, just backpedal a little bit. I’m sorry.
Dane Golden:
Yeah.
Dale L. Roberts:
Because you said before, which should kind of come first.
Dane Golden:
Yes.
Dale L. Roberts:
Okay. So I said yesterday on the book, I’m just going to go ahead and say, now I’m just going to kind of walk back. I’m going to say the day before yesterday for YouTube, for a good launch strategy. So if anything, get on YouTube now. And here’s the cool thing is if you’re going through this process of writing this book and you’re giving great insane value, people are going to become more invested in this process and believe in you. And especially if you’re 100% open, 100% authentic, I found that the more transparent I was and the more I was myself on video, the more people were really getting behind me and I started to kind of grow just massively.
Dane Golden:
Let me ask you this question though. Someone’s writing a book they’re pouring their heart and soul into that and they’re saying, “Listen, I got a business to run, now I’m writing a book. Now you’re telling me I got to do a YouTube channel. I just don’t have the time and beside … and not only do I not have the time I’m writing because I don’t want to be on video. I don’t want to be famous for video. I don’t want to be a YouTuber, I just want to write a darn book, leave me alone.” What’s your response to that?
Dale L. Roberts:
That’s typically what a lot of indie authors are like right now actually. They’re usually like, “I don’t want to be on video.” Because they’re introverted. And there is so many ways to make it shake or bake it when it comes to the video producing a business. So if you’re producing video in some capacity, remember you don’t always have to have that pretty mug in front of a camera and bearing your soul, there’s so many ways that we can do this, including screen shares. You can even outsource and hire out people to say read a script for you and have like an explainer video that kind of goes through those things. So if you have the discretionary expense or you have the imagination, you can really get that still going, it might not be easy though, but then again, nothing good comes easy.
Dane Golden:
Well there’s another factor, some people write books also cause they want to get on speaking tours or whatever the case may be. And there’s no better way than to show, you can speak, then to get on camera and show who you are and just show your body language and your whole thing. And people like, Oh yeah, I could envision that person speaking at my conference.
Dale L. Roberts:
Yes. Yeah, it’s one way to really get it to where people get to know you. Because when they can see the whites of your eyes, I’m going to tell you this, that your chances are more likely to be nabbed up for speaking engagements and getting out for media appearances if you’re willing to be in front of that camera. And I’m going to tell you, this is probably what a lot of … what gets stuck in a lot of people’s heads, especially when it comes to indie authors, because I’ve been there and I’ve felt that way before, is you get this perfect vision in your head of what you want to say and how you want to say it. And if you’re listening to this, you probably have already heard me stutter and stumble and walk back some comments and such. But you got to be okay with that. You’re going to have to get your reps in, be okay with being imperfect.
And as I’ve once said before is, “Embrace the perfection in imperfection.” Be okay with that. It’s okay to have a little mustard on your face and it’s okay to laugh at yourself. Three years ago, when I put out my first YouTube video a little over three years ago, it’s horrible, it’s cringe worthy. I was wearing like a cutoff gym tee shirt, it was bright green. I’m [lording 00:12:14] over the camera, the lighting’s horrible and it sounded like I was morose, like someone died in my family. I was like, wow, why am I not excited about this? You get me in to talk about self-publishing in front of a camera now, oh my Lord, it’s like lighten up a whole box of fireworks. Because I’m just so jazzed and excited because what it has given to me and other people that I’ve helped train across the world.
Dane Golden:
So I’m thinking of writing a book and how do I come up with the right title?
Dale L. Roberts:
What you’re going to want to do is first of all, figure out who your end user is. Who is the audience that you’re trying to communicate and really get that dialed-in. Much like a YouTube video, you’re going to want to make sure that you’re organically working in keywords that make sense. So that way when people discover your work via Amazon, it makes sense to them. That’s the solution they’re going for. But don’t just settle on one title. Here’s how you build hype. This is something that you and I were kind of talking about previously and that is building hype. One of the most effective ways to build hype, is to bring people along for the ride. Now, I don’t care how short or small your list is for email subscribers or YouTube subscribers or even your peers, networking professionals and such, you’re going to reach out to each and every single one of them. Hey, guess what? I’m Dane. I’m looking to actually do a book here pretty soon, but I’m not really quite satisfied on the title. It’s going to be, you know, about whatever it is going that you’re talking about.
Dane Golden:
Can I post this on LinkedIn, where I have a lot of people?
Dale L. Roberts:
Yes, absolutely do it on LinkedIn.
Dane Golden:
Should I be afraid of people knowing that I’m going to write a book and what the name is?
Dale L. Roberts:
Nope. Don’t worry about that. There’s so many people that are afraid that people are going to steal their ideas. Newsflash, no one’s going to steal your idea. In fact, far more people look at that idea and go, well, I’d like to do it and they never do it.
Dane Golden:
Okay.
Dale L. Roberts:
So you’re going to be safe. And unless they actually go and trademark it, which that’s going to require a lot of time and a lot of money, it’s not very likely. So what you’re going to do is, take three to five different title iterations, something that resonates really well with you, Dane, and you’re going to pull your audience in various avenues. Hey, I’m getting ready to write a book. It’s about this. And here are three to five titles, which one makes the most sense to you and why? Which one do you not like? And tell me how I can make it better.
And here’s the cool thing is, people are going to start to vote. People love voting. They love sharing their opinion. And then when they to share their opinion and they notice that you are taking their advice and using it, they feel more invested in that. And we’re going to double down on this one Dane, since we’re already talking about it. You’ve already got the title picked. Let’s say you already wrote the content and you get the cover design. Don’t just get one cover design. You’re going to do the same thing, rinse and repeat. I see far too many indie authors-
Dane Golden:
Get the audience to participate.
Dale L. Roberts:
Yes, yes. Get three to five good cover iterations. In fact, there’s some great companies out there, that will charge a little less if you do order a little bit more. And here’s the beauty of it, you have five different covers, so in case you want to change your cover somewhere down the line, you already got another four covers hanging out in the wings here. So you’re going to have them all vote for it though. And in that process, you’re going to get them to choose that cover. This is probably the one step I tell authors do not skip when building hype. Get three to five covers, because when they can see what your work’s going to be, now they’re intrigued. Now they want to go and they want to get this book when it gets out. Oh my gosh, that’s a cool cover, I voted for that one. Dane’s going to publish it.
Dane Golden:
I voted for it. Now I have to buy it.
Dale L. Roberts:
Naturally, yeah. Yeah, and here’s the funny thing is, no one ever gets sour grapes about it. Like, I chose the other one. Typically they go, Oh man, I saw that cover. That one got voted for, well, I’m going to go ahead and order that. And here’s an extra bonus tip, get people that are super active in the selection process. Might I recommend you put them in a special thanks inside the book. This is crazy, but you can put a special thanks in there and you put the person’s name. They will go specifically out and buy that book because their name is in there.
Dane Golden:
and I can do this in a special YouTube video. I can be talking about the titles or the covers.
Dale L. Roberts:
Yes, YouTube, you have polls there. And if you’ve got a larger community, you can do a poll inside your community tab, which-
Dane Golden:
Oh, good idea. Yes, the polling feature.
Dale L. Roberts:
Yeah. My community goes buck wild over my polling feature. I always get them to vote for the next video I’m going to do and they just love it and they keep showing up all the time when I do it.
Dane Golden:
Fantastic. Great tip. Now, what have you found in your own business, because you have the training and you do the YouTube videos, what have you found the interaction between YouTube and your business?
Dale L. Roberts:
This is where it gets really interesting, because when I got into self-publishing, right about 2013 to 2014 it was just kind of a, it was a challenge. It was a dare that was put out in front of me. It was like, you should write a book, I challenge you to do that on working out. And I’m like, “Yeah, all right, I’ll do that.” And I discovered it was really expensive to get it all printed for myself, through like vanity publishers or local publishing shops and such. And I was like, “Man, I can’t afford that.” I mean, I was carrying a pretty good job, but not enough to pay for it. So I was doing fitness books when I got into this. It wasn’t until about two years, when I just, I discovered my success and it just kind of, it was a two year overnight success for me.
I started making a significant amount of income that it was able to support my wife and I, that I just started getting people just left and right. Coming and getting a hold of me going, “Oh man, you had some success, you got to tell me how you did it. How do you format your books? How do you publish it over to Kindle direct publishing, what should you do about this, what you do about that?” And kind of like what I kind of hinted earlier, I’m like, okay, I can’t keep answering all these emails and private messages, because it’s taking up too much of my time. Why don’t I just shoot the videos to answer this questions.
Dane Golden:
I see.
Dale L. Roberts:
So the thing is, I should have books about self-publishing and ashamedly Dane, I don’t have a single book about self-publishing.
Dane Golden:
Ironically.
Dale L. Roberts:
But yeah-
Dane Golden:
You do have courses.
Dale L. Roberts:
Yes, I do have courses. I do have the coaching program. So there’s many other avenues of the Self-Publishing with Dale. And there is a book about self-publishing in the works. I promise you it will be coming out.
Dane Golden:
And you already have a YouTube video where you’re setting the stage for it, a YouTube channel.
Dale L. Roberts:
Exactly, exactly. And I’ve already kind of hinted that it’s so close naturally, I already have an email list that I’m generating that buzz and I’m getting that interest in such. But here’s the funny thing, even though fitness has very little correlation with self-publishing, because that was the books that really brought me to the dance, is the fitness books.
Dane Golden:
Right.
Dale L. Roberts:
The funny thing is, is that continues to send traffic over there. So I’ll use my books as an example from time-to-time and then I’ll notice a bump in sales. Because naturally the viewers are kind of going, huh. So there’s a little bit of like a crossover of some people that are interested in self-publishing and some of them go, “Oh, he’s got a fitness book. Well I better check that out.”
Dane Golden:
But even, I mean, apart from not having a book about self-publishing, you have courses that you’re charging for, what you’re telling them for free on your YouTube channel.
Dale L. Roberts:
Yeah. Yes. Well there is … I have an array of courses just to be clear, the DIY publishing course and one of the entry level products is a free course because I get a lot-
Dane Golden:
I see.
Dale L. Roberts:
Of people that get a little lost from time-to-time. And here’s the thing, this is the argument a lot of people say, “I can just Google up the answers.” Yeah. You’re also going to spend hours upon hours trying to disseminate every little piece and curate as much as possible and try to see what’s fact and what’s fiction. I want to kind of save that time for people, because I want to get them started and I want them asking those higher tier questions, those things that are going to take them to the next level. And that’s, we start to look at the upgrades, the upsells to things like the premium course.
Dane Golden:
Got it. Okay. Now, in doing this now and you’ve helped a lot of customers do this, a lot of clients, what types of surprises have you seen? Any little anecdotes between the interaction between books and YouTube? Anything?
Dale L. Roberts:
Gosh, Amazon and YouTube are almost like brother and sister. That is the most surprising thing, and I discovered that over the last couple of years. They function in such the same way in search ability and the algorithms and how they work, so you know how keywords work to optimize discovery over on YouTube. The same thing works for your titles and your books on Amazon. And the more I started to learn, the more I start to discover I know nothing at all and I just keep trying to study more about YouTube and study more about Amazon and self-publishing on that avenue, because they have so much alike. It’s uncanny. So that’s probably one of the biggest surprises that I’ve discovered.
Dane Golden:
So Dale L. Roberts, how can people find more about you and Self-Publishing With Dale?
Dale L. Roberts:
The best way to get ahold of me, I’ll tell you, just head over to the hub, that’s selfpublishingwithdale.Com. Again, that’s selfpublishingwithdale.com you’ll be able to see my YouTube channel, all the courses that I have, the podcasts that I run, so on and so forth. Rather than sending you to 50,000 different spots, you just head to selfpublishingwithdale.Com. Say it again, selfpublishingwithdale.com.
Dane Golden:
Selfpublishingwithdale.Com, Thank you Dale L. Roberts, I appreciate it. And people will be able to find this episode by searching for HEY and Dale L. Roberts. My name is Dane Golden and I want to thank you, the listener for joining us today.
We do this podcast, the Video Marketing Value podcast from HEY.com and we do the videos and YouTube and everything else, because we believe marketers and business owners just like you can grow a loyal customer community, through helpful how-to videos. Because when you share your expertise in a way that helps your customers live their lives better or do their jobs better, you’ll earn their loyalty and their trust and their business. Thanks to our special guest, Dale L. Roberts, of Self-Publishing With Dale.
Dale L. Roberts:
Thank you.
Dane Golden:
Until next week, here’s to helping you help your customers through video.
Dane Golden:
All right.